SWBF2 Unity Port

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SWBF2 Unity Port

Postby skipsoftware » Fri Mar 09, 2018 10:43 pm

Did someone so far considered to Port SWBF2 to a modern Engine like Unity or Unreal or already tried so?

I wrote an Importer for Unity on top of LibSWBF2. Collisions included, so with a simple FPS Controller, the maps are fully walkable.
These are my results:

Edit: Link to the Unity Importer

Hidden/Spoiler:
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Last edited by skipsoftware on Sun Mar 11, 2018 12:05 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: SWBF2 Unity Port

Postby Teancum » Sat Mar 10, 2018 4:11 am

I have quite a bit of experience with Unity, but to be honest I think the sheer scale of it all would be too much work. Plus nearly everyone would have to learn a new game engine. Lastly, it would be likely to be shut down by Disney as other projects have in the past.

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Re: SWBF2 Unity Port

Postby Marth8880 » Sat Mar 10, 2018 6:54 am

I think it would be quite fun to reverse-engineer SWBF2's systems with C# in Unity! Granted a lot of those systems would be best done in C++ but still.

Any chance we could get you to build a new and improved Zero Editor? :P

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Re: SWBF2 Unity Port

Postby skipsoftware » Sat Mar 10, 2018 11:49 am

Marth8880 wrote:Any chance we could get you to build a new and improved Zero Editor? :P


Image

I wont rely on such an old and buggy engine like ZE anymore. Unity is incredibly easy, has a lot of features and can finally compete against Unreal in terms of graphics.
Right now, importing any kind of Mod Tools Map to Unity is possible with just the hit of a button. In LibSWBF2 saving MSHs is somewhat supported, but I don't see any reason to implement a map export to the old Mod Tools file formats.

Nevertheless, if you're interested I'm glad for any contribution :mrgreen:

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Re: SWBF2 Unity Port

Postby Marth8880 » Sat Mar 10, 2018 2:07 pm

skipsoftware wrote:I wont rely on such an old and buggy engine like ZE anymore. Unity is incredibly easy, has a lot of features and can finally compete against Unreal in terms of graphics.

So your justification for not extending/improving the modding tools is because of the engine's age and graphic fidelity? Am I reading that right?

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Re: SWBF2 Unity Port

Postby skipsoftware » Sat Mar 10, 2018 2:53 pm

Unity's graphics in comparison with Unreal, not ZE.
Did I not contribute to extend/improve the modding tools by writing this Library and a new MSH Editor?
I just wont write an entirely new, extended functional Zero Editor.

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Re: SWBF2 Unity Port

Postby Marth8880 » Sat Mar 10, 2018 3:02 pm

skipsoftware wrote:Did I not contribute to extend/improve the modding tools by writing this Library and a new MSH Editor?
I just wont write an entirely new, extended functional Zero Editor.

My confusion is the apparent conflict of interest with these two things. Is your reasoning that it would simply be too much work? Because that'd absolutely be fair reasoning.

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Re: SWBF2 Unity Port

Postby skipsoftware » Sat Mar 10, 2018 3:28 pm

Marth8880 wrote:Is your reasoning that it would simply be too much work? Because that'd absolutely be fair reasoning.


For a single person, definetly. For a group of people, it would be possible.

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Re: SWBF2 Unity Port

Postby Marth8880 » Sat Mar 10, 2018 3:34 pm

skipsoftware wrote:For a single person, definetly. For a group of people, it would be possible.

Depending on if .NET or Qt is used and if it's in C# or not, I'd likely contribute quite a bit, especially in the actual design of the application itself. When it comes to building actual functionality, I could probably do a significant amount as well other than the more complicated 3D things.

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Re: SWBF2 Unity Port

Postby skipsoftware » Sun Mar 11, 2018 12:01 pm

Marth8880 wrote:Depending on if .NET or Qt is used and if it's in C# or not


Since everything so far is .NET and C#, I don't see any reason to switch.

Btw I published the Importer for Unity on GITHUB aswell.

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Re: SWBF2 Unity Port

Postby ggctuk » Sun Mar 11, 2018 6:30 pm

Teancum wrote:I have quite a bit of experience with Unity, but to be honest I think the sheer scale of it all would be too much work. Plus nearly everyone would have to learn a new game engine. Lastly, it would be likely to be shut down by Disney as other projects have in the past.


Once upon a time, psych0fred suggested we do just that. However, this was before the EA days and there is absolutely no doubt that EA would have Disney shut this down in a heartbeat. That may be why we can't even get the source code for the original engines in the first place. I myself had ideas of creating a 'clone engine' (I'm not nearly proficient enough in C++ to do it myself) as opposed to a port of either game to a completely different engine. It's a sad state of things, but EA has proven it is pretty much intolerant to outsiders in this regard: this is the publisher that refused to even allow Galaxy in Turmoil to come under their own banner for fear of 'diverting' from their own Battlefront titles.

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Re: SWBF2 Unity Port

Postby Marth8880 » Sun Mar 11, 2018 6:47 pm

ggctuk wrote:That may be why we can't even get the source code for the original engines in the first place.

a) Has anyone actually really tried to obtain the source code? Like has anyone ever tried tweeting any of the original engine programmers or contacted them on LinkedIn in case one of them might happen to have it?
b) If anything, the source code hasn't been publicly released because that's not really a thing that most developers do in the first place, largely due to legal reasons.

ggctuk wrote:EA has proven it is pretty much intolerant to outsiders in this regard

I'm fairly certain that EA is contractually obligated to disallow outside Star Wars game projects, aka they probably don't even have a choice. :P

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Re: SWBF2 Unity Port

Postby ggctuk » Sun Mar 11, 2018 6:50 pm

Marth8880 wrote:
ggctuk wrote:That may be why we can't even get the source code for the original engines in the first place.

Has anyone actually really tried to obtain the source code? Like has anyone ever tried tweeting any of the original engine programmers or contacted them on LinkedIn in case one of them might happen to have it?


Yes. psych0fred has the source code at least for SWBF1 version 1.2, and he was asked if it was possible (which is sort of how the 'create the game in a new engine' came about) but he says he's not able to share it.

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Re: SWBF2 Unity Port

Postby Calrissian97 » Sun Mar 11, 2018 6:51 pm

Marth8880 wrote:
ggctuk wrote:That may be why we can't even get the source code for the original engines in the first place.

a) Has anyone actually really tried to obtain the source code? Like has anyone ever tried tweeting any of the original engine programmers or contacted them on LinkedIn in case one of them might happen to have it?
b) If anything, the source code hasn't been publicly released because that's not really a thing that most developers do in the first place, largely due to legal reasons.

ggctuk wrote:EA has proven it is pretty much intolerant to outsiders in this regard

I'm fairly certain that EA is contractually obligated to disallow outside Star Wars game projects, aka they probably don't even have a choice. :P


In one of Galaxy in Turmoil's blog posts, the author talks about how Disney was even on board with it, but since they had a contract with EA they had to go through them. And EA refused because of the whole BF reason, so the OG game was scrapped.

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Re: SWBF2 Unity Port

Postby skipsoftware » Sun Mar 11, 2018 11:05 pm

I don't think obtaining the source code is really necessary, all you need are models, textures and animations to be ported (where just the latter is left to be implemented).
They can't just easily share proprietary code. What they did share though are all the assets (models, textures and animations), published via Mod Tools for free and accessible for everyone (even if you actually don't own the game).

Writing an entirely new Engine would be a ridiculous amount of work and wouldn't make much a difference in terms of possible legal issues with Disney or EA.

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Re: SWBF2 Unity Port

Postby SleepKiller » Mon Mar 12, 2018 4:34 am

skipsoftware wrote:I don't think obtaining the source code is really necessary, all you need are models, textures and animations to be ported (where just the latter is left to be implemented).
They can't just easily share proprietary code. What they did share though are all the assets (models, textures and animations), published via Mod Tools for free and accessible for everyone (even if you actually don't own the game).
I feel as though someone should point out here that the license that accompanies the modtools prohibits what you're doing. You're not allowed to use it or it's assets to create a standalone a product. (Don't take this as a discouragement from me, I just feel it is something to keep in mind in your decision making process.)

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Re: SWBF2 Unity Port

Postby skipsoftware » Mon Mar 12, 2018 9:19 am

SleepKiller wrote:I feel as though someone should point out here that the license that accompanies the modtools prohibits what you're doing. You're not allowed to use it or it's assets to create a standalone a product.


Actually the License shipped with the Mod Tools prohibits reverse engineering in any kind of way

You may not:
(3) modify or prepare derivative works of the Software [...]
(4) reverse engineer the Software, derive source code, or otherwise attempt to reconstruct or discover any underlying source code, ideas, algorithms, file formats, programming or interoperability interfaces of the Software by any means whatsoever [...]


So one could argue that the 1.3 Patch and publishing the reverse engineered file formats like MSH is already illegal, officially. It's clear that doing a Port to Unity is against the Licence, it's more of what's the likelihood that Disney cares. And yes, if we'd do a huge Port, especially with a lot of PR, at some point they probably will.

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Re: SWBF2 Unity Port

Postby SleepKiller » Mon Mar 12, 2018 9:41 am

I fail to see how 1.3 violates those conditions of the license, isn't it implemented using the scripts and tools published with the modtools?

Anyway, I never said I didn't know about those clauses. I simply said it was something you should factor into your decision making when deciding what to spend your time on. It just strikes me that LucasArts/Disney are far more likely to care about someone redistributing assets from a game they still sell then they are to care about XSIZETools which let's people import and create content for the aforementioned game.

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Re: SWBF2 Unity Port

Postby Teancum » Mon Mar 12, 2018 7:49 pm

I would agree with SleepKiller. A whole new engine could attract unwanted attention. If this moves forward it's probably best on ModDB or anywhere outside of Gametoast.

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Re: SWBF2 Unity Port

Postby iamastupid » Sun Mar 18, 2018 6:39 am

skipsoftware wrote:Did someone so far considered to Port SWBF2 to a modern Engine like Unity or Unreal or already tried so?

I made a working demo on Unreal a couple months back with a friend, or at least started to. Created the Bespin Platforms map from BF1 with working starfighters, health and ammo droids and the basic assault class. Onwards to opinions regarding EA and fan projects, they actually don't care. Take it from me, Ex-Frontwire staff and Fan-Game contributor, they've only Cease and Desisted Galaxy in Turmoil since it was gaining way too much media attention, going on a steam which is way more popular than origin and was directly challenging EAFront II (And look how that turned out), apart from that unless you use DICE assets they don't care as long as you keep it as a free fan-game (Released on indie sites, indiedb, gamejolt or hosted on a forum/self owned website, anything apart from Steam and related apps), I mean Luke Landwanker's still working on his BF3 remake and he has been in direct contact with EA on multiple occasions and they didn't care at all.

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