How to find vehicle weak points in files [Solved]

[Michaeluj]

Firstly, I am not a modder. I simply got the mod tools for Battlefront 2004 and a MSH viewer for purposes of getting information "from the source" so that I could make more accurate wiki contributions. (I will do Battlefront 2 2005 eventually. I just figure that the process is exactly the same as for the predecessor)

Ideally, I want to take a snapshot of a MSH file and precisely overlay an outline of the vehicle weak points. Alternatively, if such images are already present, I'll be ecstatic. But where do I find the information? What file type is it? What are the names of these files and how do I interpret their contents (if needed)?

[Oceans14]

Hi Michaeluj! From what experience I have, the mesh viewers don't show the weak points because these are defined by "collision" cubes or cylinders that are not interpreted as visible by msh exporters. They are referenced in a vehicle's odf:

Code: Select all

HitLocation			= "p_crithit1 4.0"
HitLocation			= "p_crithit2 4.0"

(cis spider walker for example)
but since you can't see the placement, that isn't helpful. My advice would be to install XSI ModTool 7.5 and ANDEWEGET's XSIZETools, because that will allow you to import the models into a modeling tool with a tree view and viewports, so you can literally toggle the collision pieces on and off to see where they are. Use the odf to find the name of the critical hit area and then look for it in the model's hierarchy.

Hidden/Spoiler:

Edit: Oh, and for bf1 you're going to want to look in BFBuilder\Assets\Sides\whatever side you're interested it, the three letter code is self-explanatory

[Michaeluj]

Thank you so much, Oceans14. That is perhaps the perfect explanation. The visuals, in particular, are an excellent way of conveying what I seek, and the 3-angle approach with how you present the pictures here will probably be the technique by which I shall convey these critical hit points for the wiki too.

Also, thank you for the folder navigation advice, lol. I already had a fair amount of success with perusing through the files, having found some interesting data about cut content, unit health, and how grenades work. But yes, for an inexperienced modder, such a messy array of file names would be intimidating.


EDIT
Okay, I downloaded and (I think) installed everything correctly, but I cannot import MSH files into the XSI Mod tools. I think I need this explained in baby steps, because the available guides don't seem to have any tutorials for my specific need.

[Calrissian97]

You need to ensure ZETools is installed and use that plugin to import/export .msh files: https://github.com/Schlechtwetterfront/ ... s/releases

[Michaeluj]

Unfortunately, that doesn't help, since I already followed those instructions. I just have no way of knowing whether everything is properly set up because I have no clue what almost all of the interface involves and how it's impacted by these separate installations. The only way I can tell whether it's all set up properly is if someone says something like:

1. Open SoftImage Mod Tool 7.5

2. In the upper banner, select File --> Import --> MSH and then search through the Battlefront folders for the MSH that you want.

Thus, I can click on File, then Import, then realize that the installation is the problem when no MSH option is available (like it is now).

Also, for all I know, there is some kind of completely different set of steps required to import and view the files I seek. And I have no idea what is the proper course in that case. Clicking through the plenitude of buttons in the UI feels like navigating a maze whose rules don't seem intuitive, just a bunch of perambulating, mistakes, and dead ends, sort of like becoming a beginner video editor again.

[Calrissian97]

That's strange. XSI is actually incredibly user-friendly compared to other 3D modeling programs. Anyways, the import option wouldn't be under file, it'd be under zetools as seen here:

If you're not seeing that, then you don't have it installed correctly.

[Oceans14]

The install can be tricky because there are two softimage addon folders, one in

C:\Users\your_name\Softimage\Softimage_7.5\Addons -----which is where it belongs

and one under the Softimage folder in program files, which is wrong. Why they put an addon folder in two places we may never know.

[Michaeluj]

It may be easier, but don't ever assume that creative software can be handled by practically everyone. I'm fairly professional with photoshop and video editing, to the point where handling numerous different programs requires just a few minutes of adjustment as I figure out minor button layouts and idiosyncrasies, but that proficiency required time. I still remember, long ago, making countless amateur mistakes, bypassing many handy tools and choosing bad settings, simply because much of the interface was just visual noise. It's hard to begin, so that's why I try to be as clear as possible and take nothing for granted when instructing others.

Anyway, thank you for explaining the issue so clearly.

Speaking of which . . .

Okay, I managed to import a MSH of the walker like above, but I had trouble with generating a clear layer outline (like the white boxes shown in Oceans' pictures) and isolating the 'layers'. Actually, I did manage both (not sure how . . . stumbled on some random settings that I can no longer find which suddenly made the white boxes--and other variants of them I picked--visible), but I think I ticked a few to many boxes because I also created a whole 'nother bunch of geometric lines occluding the images of the walker. So basically, I formed the above image, plus all sorts of black and orange lines emitting from the machine. Therefore, I think I need a tutorial for isolating sections and revealing the geometry of individual layers without adding more visual noise, lol.

[Oceans14]

Hmm... well I don't know if this will help, but here's a quick gif of what I did post-export to give you the image in the first post.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/e4jw7mvsm8ev2 ... l.mpg?dl=0

The important part is where I expanded the hierarchy to find the critical hit boxes, then toggled them on.

Hopefully that helps a little. Xsi definitely has a lot of features and that leads to a bit of a learning curve even for some of the more simple things, but there's a reason we modders use it

[Michaeluj]

At last, it appears to be done. Turns out I have been using the wrong menu for this (on the right-hand side). Anyway, I have compiled images for all of the vehicles of the CIS and found some interesting results:

1. The Hailfire Tank's weak point is located in the back of the central body, not the entire body nor the missile launchers as reported.


https://ibb.co/m8ATw8

2. The STAP has a crit point listed in the ODF but none can be found in the MSH.

3. The Droid Starfighter has 2 different crit points, one listed in the ODF but a different one in the MSH (numbered 1 and 2 respectively), leading me to believe that it was intended to have one at some point but finally decided against--so they renamed it to one that doesn't have any number values attached.

[


Neat.

EDIT: Still have to figure out how images work on this site. Just accept my word for it, lol.