The reason for BF3's fall?

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The reason for BF3's fall?

Postby RED51 » Mon Dec 03, 2012 6:05 pm

Hi guys, it's been awhile. I've been busy with college and stuff. I glad too see that you guys are still making mods for this old game. I finally have a computer that can run zero editor, and along with access to 3ds Max and Softimage, I plan on returning to the modding scene.

Anyway, back to topic, I just read this;

http://www.gamespot.com/news/former-luc ... ed-6400936

What's your take on this?

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Re: The reason for BF3's fall?

Postby yuke5 » Mon Dec 03, 2012 7:21 pm

The article certainly explains a thing or two.

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Re: The reason for BF3's fall?

Postby Dreadnot9 » Mon Dec 03, 2012 7:30 pm

At this point, I'm just holding on to the dim hope that Disney will recognize the demand for this game, and we'll see it happen, possibly on the next gen consoles and pc. SWBFIII is one of the few games I would feel justified paying the full 59.99 for upfront, and any DLC we'd see coming our way as well.
Very interesting article, seems to be a lot of animosity left over about the project on both sides.

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Re: The reason for BF3's fall?

Postby Marth8880 » Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:37 pm

Heh, I think LucasArts should release the source and let Gametoast finish it. :P

But really though, heh, it's a pretty interesting story, if unverifiable. :o

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Re: The reason for BF3's fall?

Postby Dreadnot9 » Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:45 pm

Marth8880 wrote:Heh, I think LucasArts should release the source and let Gametoast finish it. :P

Now that would be interesting, haha
If we got SWBFIII with mod tools, my social life would essentially be over.

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Re: The reason for BF3's fall?

Postby Marth8880 » Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:56 pm

Dreadnot9 wrote:If we got SWBFIII with mod tools, my social life would essentially be over.

Social life? What's that? :o :P

Heh, I would probably have trouble adjusting to a whole other engine, that is unless they were to keep and update Zero Engine. I just love the way Battlefront's set up, like with ODFs, REQs, the easy-to-edit LUA, etc. It's just so user-friendly! (sorta lol)

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Re: The reason for BF3's fall?

Postby Dreadnot9 » Mon Dec 03, 2012 11:08 pm

Marth8880 wrote:Heh, I would probably have trouble adjusting to a whole other engine, that is unless they were to keep and update Zero Engine. I just love the way Battlefront's set up, like with ODFs, REQs, the easy-to-edit LUA, etc. It's just so user-friendly! (sorta lol)

I agree, I dabbled in EaW modding a while back (before battlefront actually), and it was fun, but a lot more complicated (well, less straight forward at least).
I can only imagine the game play/maps of Battlefront combined with the graphics of more modern shooters.
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Re: The reason for BF3's fall?

Postby Fusion » Tue Dec 04, 2012 7:35 am

The reason itself doesn't matter. All that matters is that Battlefront III doesn't exist.

Even if it does someday exist in the future, it won't be done by Pandemic, and will probably feature such wonderful gaming elements™ as ADS, warm-color screen blurring, some sort of mechanic that punishes you for trying to shoot while being shot at, and completely overpowered weapons that are only available if you play the game long enough that the price you can get for trading it in is about $30 less than you paid for it. Also, mod tools hurt DLC profits, so don't expect a great effort made on that front.

I mean, if Lucasarts wants to prove me wrong, go ahead and make a good Battlefront III. I'll be waiting here with the wallet I've had in my outstretched arm for six years.

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Re: The reason for BF3's fall?

Postby THEWULFMAN » Tue Dec 04, 2012 7:41 am

That's a good way to put it Fusion.

At this point I have stopped caring about the official SWBF3 they tried to develop. I have cared for so long... I am just tired.

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Re: The reason for BF3's fall?

Postby Teancum » Tue Dec 04, 2012 1:33 pm

I'm with Fusion. Show me the completed game and I'll show you my money. Frankly until then I'm tired of this catfight media coverage it's getting (much of which is the fault of the individuals offering themselves to media). It has completely obliterated any chance of the Free Radical version getting picked up again, though it sounds like we wouldn't want it anyway.

It's funny the LucasArts employee mentioned that not only did FR consistently miss milestones, but the game just wasn't fun -- the level design was bad, etc. As I watched all the leaked footage all I could think about is how the core level design looked convoluted and didn't flow well.

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Re: The reason for BF3's fall?

Postby Zapattack1234 » Tue Dec 04, 2012 5:43 pm

well in my opinion i liked the fact that they addressed both sides of the situation, and i tried my best to read the article with an unbiased approach (unsuccessfully...... i cant stand lucasarts). After reading the article i am not entirely sure whose fault it is, but then again does it really matter?JUST GIVE US BATTLEFRONT 3! :cry:

EDIT:

did anyone read the comments below the article? a lot of Battlefront hate going on there :shock:

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Re: The reason for BF3's fall?

Postby Cleb » Tue Dec 04, 2012 11:33 pm

Zapattack1234 wrote:JUST GIVE US BATTLEFRONT 3! :cry:

My thoughts exactly. I don't care that the ai is horrible and that there is no action, the unfinished version would be great. I saw the leaked footage and flying around in space to ground would be great. But I also think that battlefront iii would be a great money maker; my brother, who is "too old" for star wars and a lot of people who also think star wars is stupid at my school say that they would buy and play battlefront iii if it ever came out... :shock: So yeah, if they aren't going to make a new version, just give us the old. :o

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Re: The reason for BF3's fall?

Postby Marth8880 » Tue Dec 04, 2012 11:55 pm

Cleb wrote:But I also think that battlefront iii would be a great money maker; my brother, who is "too old" for star wars and a lot of people who also think star wars is stupid at my school say that they would buy and play battlefront iii if it ever came out...

Funny how nearly the entire world goes into rage mode when BioWare/Electronic Arts charges money for and releases on-disc DLC the day after Mass Effect 3 releases, but everybody literally pleads LucasArts to be greedy savages and release a crappy, unfinished game just because "it would be a great money maker"... :roll:

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Re: The reason for BF3's fall?

Postby Dreadnot9 » Wed Dec 05, 2012 12:38 am

Marth8880 wrote:Funny how nearly the entire world goes into rage mode when BioWare/Electronic Arts charges money for and releases on-disc DLC the day after Mass Effect 3 releases, but everybody literally pleads LucasArts to be greedy savages and release a crappy, unfinished game just because "it would be a great money maker"... :roll:

I agree, we (I'm assuming) all want Battlefront III, but I want something that is not just a basic shooter/CoD clone, or on the same level as the first two Battlefronts, I want something that is better.
I want intelligent AI, quality maps, all the things that made the first two great, and then some.
At least with it being unreleased and unplanned we can hold on to a dim hope that someday, somehow we'll get a great sequel. If they released, however, a crappy, alpha-level game we'd all go into fits complaining about how awful it is.
I've waited 8 years, I can wait 8 more if it means a quality game.

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Re: The reason for BF3's fall?

Postby Noobasaurus » Wed Dec 05, 2012 12:49 am

The anticipation is often better than the actual thing.

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Re: The reason for BF3's fall?

Postby Fusion » Wed Dec 05, 2012 1:11 am

Teancum wrote:...the level design was bad, etc....


Corsucant looked like it would play really well. Even the stripped down version in Elite Squadron plays really well.
Tatooine would have been great without that giant hangar portion. It just makes players run across the desert and usually results in sniping from the cantina or the hangar itself.
Yavin 4, despite having what feels like a lot of trash in the middle, could easily be made into a good map.

Other than those three, the rest of them looked awful. Hoth was essentially the old Hoth if it was made into a giant bowl, which is the worst idea for a shooter that requires you to capture points of the map.

Then there's the far more pressing matter of all space vehicles being able to go to the land portion of the map. I have no idea why they thought this would be a good idea. With something like Bespin Platforms it's alright because there's a lot of cover on most of the bridges and the platforms and bases have AA Turrets (in theory this works, but those turrets are awful), but if you've ever played that one really old modded stock Geonosis map with the two capital ships flying above it and decided to take a spin in a bomber you'll quickly realize why having 600+ kills is terrible for a competitive game.

I think Conquest should be kept in mind for Space, but the whole ground-space combat thing is not the way to do it. Rebellion came incredibly close to doing it right in Renegade Squadron by having a neutral location in the middle of the map, and I think that mixed with a more sensible scoring system would work incredibly well for this series instead of Assault. Something like Mav's Space Mon Calamari but with a few changes that aren't possible in BFII (capital ships exploding and causing an instant win when all of their systems are destroyed, for instance).

I feel like writing up my entire thoughts on what BFIII should be like, but I fail to see the point as people with their degrees in game design or years of marketing experience would dismiss most of my ideas even if they did still read this site.

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Re: The reason for BF3's fall?

Postby Cleb » Wed Dec 05, 2012 3:42 pm

Marth8880 wrote:
Cleb wrote:But I also think that battlefront iii would be a great money maker; my brother, who is "too old" for star wars and a lot of people who also think star wars is stupid at my school say that they would buy and play battlefront iii if it ever came out...

Funny how nearly the entire world goes into rage mode when BioWare/Electronic Arts charges money for and releases on-disc DLC the day after Mass Effect 3 releases, but everybody literally pleads LucasArts to be greedy savages and release a crappy, unfinished game just because "it would be a great money maker"... :roll:

What I meant was, something, even if it's really crappy, is better than nothing. The part about it being a money maker was if Disney realized that it would be a money maker and had the whole game remade. If they ever let us have the old version if they didn't remake it I would be perfectly fine and realize that it isn't a full completed game but it would be fun to play still.
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Also, how do you guys know what the level design is like?? I couldn't really tell what it was like from the leaked footage :? please don't bite my head off if that's a really dumb question and for my opinion :runaway:

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Re: The reason for BF3's fall?

Postby Maveritchell » Wed Dec 05, 2012 5:02 pm

Cleb wrote:What I meant was, something, even if it's really crappy, is better than nothing.

That's only true if you hold "nothing" to be a Bad Thing. "Nothing" is a default, a nonentity, neither negative nor positive. Something can be worse than nothing if it's bad - in the case of a game, it can sink the chance for more versions/updates to a game. It could sour public taste on a series/concept. It can make a business lose money. That last reason is why any publisher pulls support for a game-in-progress. It's never a wise decision to throw good money after bad, and LA obviously thought they were going to be doing that.

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Re: The reason for BF3's fall?

Postby EraOfDesann » Wed Dec 05, 2012 7:13 pm

The pre-alpha footage looked pretty lousy. I'm hard pressed to believe that the game was ever 99% complete.

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Re: The reason for BF3's fall?

Postby Maveritchell » Wed Dec 05, 2012 7:26 pm

EraOfDesann wrote:The pre-alpha footage looked pretty lousy. I'm hard pressed to believe that the game was ever 99% complete.

I think "lousy" is a stretch, and I think this topic sings of sour grapes a bit. I think that it looked nice and had an ambitious design, and the art seemed fairly faithful to the setting.

I don't think the game was "nearly complete" either, and I'm absolutely willing to buy that it wasn't up-to-par. There's some room for moderation here - remember that in a game's development life cycle, the game can be "nearly complete" several times. It could be nearly fully designed (which is way early in dev and probably not what anyone's talking about), the art could be nearly fully completed (which is midway through the dev cycle), they could be moving into a final code freeze before beta (which is likely what the case was), or they could be just about to mail a gold master. If it's anything but the latter, then there's still a significant financial and temporal investment in the game still to be made, despite its "completion." The final phases of a game's development are the most expensive, because they require the most manpower. What may be 95% complete on paper could be 50% complete in a bank register.

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