Xbox One discussion - UPDATED 5-22-13

[giftheck]

If your argument is "Oh my god it is so easy to implement an emulation of an entire system even with a completely different hardware architecture", I'm sorry, but you're wrong.

I'd also like to take this time to point out that aside from their handhelds, the Wii and Wii U have been the only Nintendo systems with backwards compatibility implementations. If you want to play Nintendo 64 games, you have to own a... *gasp*... Nintendo 64! And while, yes, the implications of downloadable games makes it harder to justify the "Just keep your Xbox 360 if you want to play those games" argument, the fact of the matter is that that's the easy solution to this "problem".

My argument is that it's not easy, but if it can be done on a PC by people who do it for free, and it can be done on another system (PS3, apparently PS4 will also incorporate something similar to the "Classics" on PS3 too), why not for this console too at some point? Microsoft seems to have ruled it out completely, which is a mistake when Sony have not.

[Teancum]

My argument is that it's not easy, but if it can be done on a PC by people who do it for free, and it can be done on another system (PS3, apparently PS4 will also incorporate something similar to the "Classics" on PS3 too), why not for this console too at some point? Microsoft seems to have ruled it out completely, which is a mistake when Sony have not.

Having spoken with developers who have done this, Classics on PSN usually consist of at least partial code ports of games rather than full on emulations. Pandemic at one time was working on putting SWBF2 on PSN, and it would have been a new build of the game -- no new content, mind you, but a new executable.

[Twilight_Warrior]

My argument is that it's not easy, but if it can be done on a PC by people who do it for free

I challenge you to find an emulator on the PC for any current or last gen console that works perfectly for every game. I've tried running a PS2, even a PSP emulator on a system arguably on level, if not better than, a PS3, and a good number of titles are still laggy and unplayable. Some of the games that DO work require very specific settings that vary from title to title.

It can be done, but if those are the results, if rather them just focus on the current hardware/software relationship, and if I really want to play last gen's games, I'll keep (or buy) last gen's console.

[Fluffy_the_ic]

My argument is that it's not easy, but if it can be done on a PC by people who do it for free

I challenge you to find an emulator on the PC for any current or last gen console that works perfectly for every game. I've tried running a PS2, even a PSP emulator on a system arguably on level, if not better than, a PS3, and a good number of titles are still laggy and unplayable. Some of the games that DO work require very specific settings that vary from title to title.

It can be done, but if those are the results, if rather them just focus on the current hardware/software relationship, and if I really want to play last gen's games, I'll keep (or buy) last gen's console.

A friend of mine's been emulating Super Mario Sunshine, a game that's about 10 years old, and he still encounters massive, gamebreaking glitches that aren't present on Gamecube. AFAIK the only perfect emulator out there is VBA, and maybe Desmume's getting close.

[Fusion]

Pass it on.


Disgraceful. In just two weeks I've gone from being a huge supporter of the Xbox to wanting this anti-consumer garbage to flop harder than the 32X.

[THEWULFMAN]

I'm behind you 100% on this Fusion.

On the "bright" side, if the Xbox One isn't cheaper than the PS4 then likely few people will buy it. Microsoft needs to learn a lesson from this. Such a shame, the 360 was amazing, and now.. this.

[TWINKEYRUNAWAY]

Could make an interesting video. sure is a bad day for microsoft. If Sony is smart they will listen to the fans and not follow these DRM abominations that Xbone has set up.

[giftheck]

I thought Microsoft had shot themselves in the foot. How wrong I was. Instead, they've gone and blown the entire leg off.

[Fusion]

Just a reminder, Microsoft has been caught hiring a lot of people for its Reputation Management department after its flop of a conference. If you see someone defending the Xbone's policies with PR speeches, trying to dismiss its attackers as hateful nerds, or just being creepily positive about the Xbone in general, that person is most likely an Astroturfer. If you see these people anywhere, ask a mod or admin to check the email they signed up with or their IP. If anything comes up with a Microsoft company email or an IP from Redmond, Washington, ban them.

[Cleb]

I still have no idea why microsoft insists on going through with this sorry excuse for a console when it is clear that if they do no one will buy their system except for the people who have lots of money to spend and don't even care if they have to pay $30 to play at their friends house.

[Fusion]

It will be a console that the masses will buy. They don't care about what they own as long as they get their yearly dose of Call of Duty.

Why fight it, then? I'd rather Microsoft kill consumer rights and lose a limb or two than let Microsoft kill consumer rights with no consequence. If they get hurt by this, then in the future it will be harder for them to do even worse things. I only regret paying for XBL Gold for 6 years, but I can take solace in the fact that I did so at a vastly reduced price every year.

(My original analogy wasn't fit for this site's ToS, by the way. There is a hint in the preceding sentence.)

[TWINKEYRUNAWAY]

A new low for them.....freaking......wow...

http://news.softpedia.com/news/Microsof ... 9264.shtml

[tirpider]

Perhaps this is Microsoft's way of getting out of the gaming industry.

Like if a guy is asked by his wife to do something, and he does it so badly that she never asks him to do it again.

[THEWULFMAN]

I'm the first to jump on a band-wagon of hate for greed and dirty tricks like this, but I don't see any kind of proof anywhere that they did this. What's the source? A leak? A leak we'd have to believe to be true.

They don't even list their source, be it a leak or whatever.

[Bob]

Since the source is some rumor spouting forum there is a chance that the provided information is wrong. I hope so. Someone at Microsoft has to realise that this kills any last bit of reputation they had left. I don't want to believe that they absolutely don't know what they are doing.

Like if a guy is asked by his wife to do something, and he does it so badly that she never asks him to do it again.

That analogy made me giggle.

[Teancum]

A new low for them.....freaking......wow...

http://news.softpedia.com/news/Microsof ... 9264.shtml

Totally fake. It's from NeoGAF. Unless there's physical evidence never believe it. Also note that the original poster seems a PS fanboy. He's got a sackboy avatar with a #PS4noDRM hashtag across it.

By the way. I'll totally buy an Xbox One. Everyone's crying, but remember that Sony hasn't even revealed what their console looks like (let alone many of their PS4 policies), so all the Xbox hate is misguided. Frankly the moves Microsoft is making are the future. After so long with piracy and other issues the industry is looking for a real way to combat it. This is how it's going to be. Mark my words.

[Fusion]

Totally fake. It's from NeoGAF. Unless there's physical evidence never believe it. Also note that the original poster seems a PS fanboy. He's got a sackboy avatar with a #PS4noDRM hashtag across it.

I wouldn't call fake because of that. Just because the internet sometimes has lies spread as truth doesn't mean you can immediately call all things posted on the internet lies. Sure, the poster is probably a Sony fanboy, but if the information is right the only difference it makes is that a fan of Sony broke it to you and not a fellow Xbox fan that should be rightly outraged at these practices.

Really though, there's no point in arguing this until next week as E3 has not yet happened.

By the way. I'll totally buy an Xbox One. Everyone's crying, but remember that Sony hasn't even revealed what their console looks like (let alone many of their PS4 policies), so all the Xbox hate is misguided.

Why is it misguided? If Sony reveals that they're doing the exact same thing I'll be just as vocal as I am now. The facts are, Microsoft came out first and said you can't sell property you own and are only buying a license to own it. What would be misguided would be to start shaming Sony for these practices that they have not even confirmed if they are doing or not.

Frankly the moves Microsoft is making are the future. After so long with piracy and other issues the industry is looking for a real way to combat it. This is how it's going to be. Mark my words.

This will help no one but pirates and publishers.
Pirates will eventually crack into the Xbone and remove all of the DRM, releasing tutorials on how to do it and possibly even charging to make any hardware adjustments needed, as they are doing now with the 360 and even the original Xbox. They will then have all of the games up for download, as they have also always done. No one will get paid for their work, and regular consumers will continue to have to deal with policies that will now get even worse due to these pirates.
Publishers will continue to make short, five hour games for $60. There are no plans for sales or price reductions in general like there are on Steam, so these will always go for as much as they want whenever they want. Also, now they will get double what they used to because you can no longer loan the game to a friend without them paying and you can't even get it back in working condition. Gamestop/EB Games will also continue to give you less than half what you paid for the game if you trade it in because now they are in complete control of the used games market, and will possibly give you even less money back now that they have said complete control.
Consumers? They can't sell games without a watchful eye and a greedy outstretched arm over them. They can't play games if their internet is down for whatever reason (changing plans, phone lines cut due to natural disaster, throttled connection once the 24 hour period is over...). I don't know what they're going to do about the problems of the seventh generation, but this is a complete overreaction that will only end up hurting them.

If this is the future of gaming then I'm ready for the end days.

[Teancum]

So wait, you're saying that hackers will break the XBOne's code, but that having it there in the first place helps piracy? Look at the PC. The barriers there are next to none and it's a madhouse for piracy.

[Marth8880]

I think what he's getting at is that hardware modifications might be necessary and that pirates might charge for said modifications, thus helping the pirates.

[Teancum]

I think what he's getting at is that hardware modifications might be necessary and that pirates might charge for said modifications, thus helping the pirates.

Welcome to every console generation ever.

Publishers will continue to make short, five hour games for $60. There are no plans for sales or price reductions in general like there are on Steam, so these will always go for as much as they want whenever they want.

That addresses something else. The cost-to-profit ratio is microscopically small compared to years ago. Take, for example, an NES game new in 1985. It cost 50 US dollars to buy it, and most were developed by teams of less than 10. Factor in inflation for 2012 (latest figures) and buying the exact same game today would be 105.01 dollars. Most of those games were less than five hours in length. But people are up in arms when a game the same length that took 50+ people and has features far beyond a NES game costs 60 dollars.

Don't fool yourself. People want to get up in arms about DRM, but the industry is dying. It's on life support. Is piracy the only reason? No, far from it, but the point is that it has to change--to evolve into something different to survive. This sort of crippled-trade (which people don't have the full story on yet) issue people take with the XBOne is stupid. Can you trade your Steam or Origin games after you've played them? Can you trade a PSN title or Xbox LIVE Arcade game? No. They're digital, which is exactly where the industry is going. Microsoft simply manned up and decided it would be willing to take all the tomatoes from the audience while Sony still hasn't even shown us what the system looks like.

By the way. I'll totally buy an Xbox One. Everyone's crying, but remember that Sony hasn't even revealed what their console looks like (let alone many of their PS4 policies), so all the Xbox hate is misguided.

Why is it misguided? If Sony reveals that they're doing the exact same thing I'll be just as vocal as I am now. The facts are, Microsoft came out first and said you can't sell property you own and are only buying a license to own it. What would be misguided would be to start shaming Sony for these practices that they have not even confirmed if they are doing or not.

You seem an exception to the rule, then. Most have already made up their minds, but I'd wager Sony will have similar policies that they'll either 1) not explain at E3, or 2) talk up in a better light than Microsoft did. I'll give one thing to them, they were smart not to reveal their DRM/Always On/etc policies first. No matter what they'll at least somewhat look like the good guy.

I hope it doesn't come off as a personal attack. It's just that, having worked in the media side of the industry for going on two years now, these moves are (some of) the things needed to keep developers open and profitable.